This is the place where you will post discussion questions and comments for English 1010--just make sure to include your first name and last initial at the end of your post!
What do you think about the “teacher” who laughed during the experiment?
Initially, I felt stunned; to giggle while apparently inflicting pain seems sadistic. Yet his articulate perspective of the experiment suggests strong self-awareness, which is not something I’d expect from someone deranged, if that’s how you’d label a sadist.
I’m a big Beatles fan and I remember reading that when John Lennon learned of the death of his manager, who was also his friend, Lennon burst out laughing. Perhaps it’s a way his shock manifested itself, or maybe it just masked truly overwhelming emotions.
Are there other people who feel the teacher’s laughter may have been a coping mechanism?
My question regarding the Milgram Experiment is pretty general, why would the teacher proceed to cause pain to the learner? The teacher must have known it was wrong, because the article tells of concern for the learner whom is crying out in pain. I think the actual need for finishing the teaching is overpowering to the teacher, but yet I still can't understand why the continuing of increasing pain infliction.
Which is Hitler was not a sadistic monster but rather an uninspired bureaucrat who sat at his desk and did his job.
Personally, I think as a human being you know if what you are doing is right or wrong. Is there any of you that think people like Hitler were just "doing their job?"
Holly: I also felt like the laughing could have been a coping mechanism. I think what was going through the guys head was "I can't believe I'm actually doing this!" Therefore the laughing was showing he is acknowledging he knows what he's doing is crazy, and that in turn made him feel better. -Kaleb Payne
Does anyone else find it interesting that the "teacher(s)" didn't just walk out when they felt so uncomfortable by hurting the "learner(s)?" It seemed like they really wanted to please the "experimenter", and were actually intimidated by them. Debra W.
yeah it was a little weird, I dont understand why anyone would continue with the experiment after they found ot they would be hurting somebody. Also I wonder if any of them just needed the financial award and were willing to do whatever it took to get it?
Zimbardo studies the power of role playing in his experiment. Does anyone agree we give ourselves limiting labels, building our own prisons in the process?
We once had a class discussion about how uneasy it is to go places alone, like the movie theater, for example. I saw "Paranormal Activity" by myself in the theater (it seemed like a good idea at the time). It was for my book with all the new experiences; I spent most of my life labeling myself as shy, and I had to throw away that label in order to write my book. While the label felt legitimate, it made me feel exempt from taking initiative in life.
Holly: I totally agree that we confine ourselves in our minds and set limits that we won't go past. This prison we're creating seems like it comes from what others say or think of us, and our own doubts. People today are definitely creating prisons psychologically. -Kaleb Payne
In "The Standford Prison Experiment,' it talks about how some of the experimental prisoners were terminated because of anxiety symptoms. Do any of you feel like some of those cases were faked just so that the prsioner could get out? -Kaleb Payne
Kaleb: Your question made me think. Faking anguish in order to be freed from the experiment seems like a clever escape tactic, but due to the severity of the symptoms, I think they were real. There's also the counterexample of Prisoner 819, who didn't want to leave so long as others believed he was a "bad prisoner."
It obviously wasn't a pleasant situation, but if it was still endurable enough that there weren't severe cases of anxiety, you'd wonder why people who agreed to be part of it were now desperate to leave.
Do you guys agree or disagree that a situation is more powerful than a person's character?
The "fundamental attribution error" is a term for when we overestimate the importance of character and fail to recognize the power of a situation in affecting our behavior. Is this true, false, or partly true?
I am stuck between agreeing and disagreeing. I feel that a situation should never be above a person's character. However, I can agree that some, if not most, people are weak-minded and can let a situation have power over them.
Now reading the second part of your post is making me feel like I just had a fundamental attribution error haha. The power of a certain situation can be huge, but I still hold firm on the belief that a situation can never be above a person's character if they are strong enough. Situations can work in our favor or against and when they are against it tests our character and ourselves to the core. I would say partly true because there are still some people that would respect their character than be enveloped by a situation, but the majority letting the situation affect their behavior.
is obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people.
In "The Standford Prison Experiment,' it talks about how some of the experimental prisoners were terminated because of anxiety symptoms. Do any of you feel like some of those cases were faked just so that the prsioner could get out?
faking injury is a smart way to deal with that particular problem. think about it, if the guards or the professor is instead of hounding them for being prisoners and worrying about their well being, then all of a sudden your not a prisoner anymore for that moment.
do you think it works the other way around? can you be instead of faking injury, becoming more aggressive in order to cope with the pressures of confinement.
Does anyone else find it interesting that the "teacher(s)" didn't just walk out when they felt so uncomfortable by hurting the "learner(s)?" It seemed like they really wanted to please the "experimenter", and were actually intimidated by them. Debra W.
i think the mere fact that they were given a job was the reason. i can't count the times I've been consumed by my workload with the desire to just finish. i think that a lot of them felt responsible for the test itself.
i know that this is a special case but what if in the real world you were told to flip a metaphorical switch that you new would case pain to another person. what if that push of a switch resulted in the cure to cancer, or cold fusion, or averted a war.
Holly: I think a situtaion is as powerful as one's character makes it. What i mean by that is it depends on how strong of a character a person has made for themself, and how much they value you it. While i do agree that a situation can add a stress that may test their character, it is utimately up to how strong their character is. If one has a strong enough character they can defeat a bad situation, in my opinion. -Kaleb Payne
So the article on banning fast food advertising.... I was a little skeptical on how true the results are out of a study environment. I personally don't think just cutting advertisements will make a lot of people just all together stop eating fast food. Does anyone else find the fact that just watching food commercials is adding to obesity a stong assumption??
So the article on banning fast food advertising.... I was a little skeptical on how true the results are out of a study environment. I personally don't think just cutting advertisements will make a lot of people just all together stop eating fast food. Does anyone else find the fact that just watching food commercials is adding to obesity a stong assumption??
absolutely not. i think its another way for people to give their responsibility to someone else. its stupid to think i gained 300lbs by watching a McDonald add. no i got that way from eating food that was really bad for me. and that alone doesn't do it. you can eat the worst stuff out there as long as you hit the gym. while i was in the military one of my close friends and a ritual of eating a pint of ice cream every night like it was a new religion or something. saying food makes you fat is like saying guns kill people. nothing can happen without something acting.
Peter as an "Answer" to your question regarding the fastfood commercials adding to obesity; I don't believe so either. I think your absolutely right on saying that it's how we act on what we are seeing. The commercials entice us to want the food, but whether we decide to eat there is completely on us. Yes the fast food should be a bit healthier, but it's not like we are really forced to eat it. Exercise is good PARKOUR!!!! ^_^
Hey guys check out this wacky KFC ad. What do you think the appeal and what not is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlQP7pSgpA
I kind of think they are trying to appeal the people who like a variety on things, but at the same time really drawing from their signature logo about the "Recipe". They show a family munching on chicken; so their target audience definitely is family. The song was quite catchy.
"is obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people." -Peter Gilchrist-
Andrew: I guess it really depends on the situation Peter; in that soldier situation he has to act to the authority of his superior, but with that what if the superior is a bit corrupted by his own personally feelings over what's actually right. That feeling is then passed onto the soldier who has to think, but if he is just going off of how superior his commanding officer is then it just ends up with the same deal.
This is where i ask "When is obedience a good thing, and when is a bad thing?"
>>"is obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people." -Peter Gilchrist-<<
Peter, I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you. I think in that situation there is a certain amount of trust --if not in the commanding officer personally, then in the institution that put him in that position-- that allows a soldier to obey that authority immediately. I think in that situation, obedience is vital.
>>Hey guys check out this wacky KFC ad. What do you think the appeal and what not is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlQP7pSgpA <<
Wow, I thought that commercial was awful! It's the kind of commercial that would make me hit the mute button immediately. Without the sound they look like they are enjoying the chicken, though! :) I think one appeal they were using was affiliation. They were all part of the group, loving chicken! Also, physiological needs, hunger, and such.
when fighting a war most people only think of the side their on. people pray to be delivered from evil and protected from their enemies not even thinking that is exactly what the apposing force is doing.in my experience, this has proven to be the case whether the individual a religious person or not.
imagine for a minute that the table was switched and we were not part of our great country but a German indoctrinated from a very early age to love the feror, hate the Jews, and believe you, the master race, was suprior in every way to the world.
obedience takes on a whole new meaning now.
How do we find truth? to a German boy in the Hitler youth it was that he was superior, in Saipan the thousands of civilians committed suicide rather then be confronted by the brutal marine core.
-How do you know what truth is?
-What if your actions (although evil)to the outside world appealed to your truth?
-Could you really be held responsible for being obedient to cause you believe in?
last question.
What if we lost? history is written by the man/county with the biggest stick. with history being written by Germany would we generations later still view things the same way?
Your example of the Hitler Youth brings up a good point. It is always helpful, not only to put yourself in other peoples shoes, but looks imagine looking through their eyes. So how do we know what truth is? Good question. Every persons truths are different. Even a similar truth, for example religion, can be interpreted differently by two people. Example, two Catholics that both have faith in their religion but still have differences in certain aspects of it. Truth is based completely on the individual, whether he/she was taught it from birth or learned it. So to the second part of your question, evil is a view based on the individual. I personally think it is evil for a group to throw rocks at a persons head until they are dead but in other countries stoning someone is a common form of punishment. That so called savage evil life, according to me, is normal to someone raised in those tradition and vice versa. Someone who thinks stoning someone is fine might think solitary confinement is evil, all a matter of opinion. Coming to your last question, the winning side always writes the history and the winning side will never be evil. If Germany won WWII then their truths and ideals would have been correct and ours evil and wrong. Concentration camps would have been looked at as necessary and the allies as evil allies that came to aid the evil jews.
I hope my answers made sense. Great questions though.
Peter, answering your question "How do you know what truth is?" I think one chooses what truth is to them by what their morals and values would say. And in the world today people have many different morals and values so, in my opinion, almost everyone in the world is going to have a different opinion on what truth is. How well can certain people be trusted in today's society also plays a big roll in ansering that question. That is a great question though. . . . it left me very skeptical. -Kaleb Payne
In James Poniewozik's "The Princess Paradox," he mentions how more recent cinderella movies vary very differently from past ones. He says movies now make the cinderella all about the ball and the dress and being girly girl. With the past movies he suggests that the women in those movies are taught to work and be tough and provide for themselves. Do you agree that in these days the girl or princess almost has to be seen as royal and girly girl? Or do you think that the cinderella is still displayed as tough and self sustainable?
So, can someone explain to me why it's so bad for a little girl to want to be a princess? How is that damaging? I understand the fight we (women) have gone through to become equals, but I don't understand how dressing up and pretending to be a princess sets us back. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Kaleb, good question! So, I think it depends on who the audience is meant to be. I think in Disney's Cinderella, the focus is mainly on right and wrong, and happily ever after, etc. The steps were wrong to be so mean, Cinderella deserved a happily ever after... But in Ever After, the audience is maybe a little older. The same things translate well here for the younger crowd, but you also see "cinderella" taking care of the servants, bringing down the bad guy, standing up to bandits, AND getting the prince!
Peter, those are some really tough questions. I get where you're going with them, but when you asked to imagine we were Germans indoctrinated from youth to believe those things, it made me really think about it. I don't know. My hope is that there would be some conscience that would not be denied. History has shown that even in totalitarian societies there are resistance groups that rise up, whether successfully or not. Doesn't this show that truth is not necessarily just what you're told?
Cathy Evans said... So, can someone explain to me why it's so bad for a little girl to want to be a princess? How is that damaging? I understand the fight we (women) have gone through to become equals, but I don't understand how dressing up and pretending to be a princess sets us back. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Andrew Plaster Responds: I guess by "pretending" to be a princess it sets in the little girls mind that they should be dependent on waiting for their prince to spoil and take care of them. I don't think it's really a bad thing. The women who think that it's so bad should maybe set limits on how long their daughters can play princess. A age limit at which their needs to be some better exploring of different things in life. That's kind of a rough opinion I suppose, but I tried.
Hey guys! Here's yet another wacky ad going back to when we were talking about ads. This totally isn't something I would expect from the Japanese community. Again let's analyze the appeal the Japanese are trying to get across to their children. Maybe turn the volume down, because them children are loud.
Wow! Those are some really excited kids! I think it's really interesting that the McDonald's commercial didn't feature any of their food. No fries, no juicy burgers, no milkshakes! The Japanese seem to understand that the kids couldn't care less about the food. They want the toys! It's true, too. My kids would rather have had a bowl of cereal (as long as they still got the toy)!
Andrew, I think that was a great opinion! That is my point, actually. What is the big deal? If you (as the parent) are concerned, set limits! Direct their play. Interact with your kids, people! Sorry. Done ranting. =)
Hey Spencer, a good place to find controversial articles is on the opinion page of any newspaper or news website (cnn.com, nytimes.com, www.time.com/time). Another good place to look is news websites that have a bias--foxnews.com, huffingtonpost.com, motherjones.com, washingtonpost.com.
In Burger's article, "Replicating Milgram: Would People Still Obey Today", we read of an experiment that was much similar to Stanley Milgram's in the way it was done, as well as the results.
Why do you think the results are close in percentage, given the experiments took place were done forty five years from each other? -Daniel Tillman
Do you think Mr. Milgram got some of his ideas of his experiment from Solomon Asch's experiment, given both show individuals surrendering their own judgement into someone else?
Another fact to point out is Solomon Asch's experiment took place a little more than decade before Mr. Milgrams. -Daniel Tillman
Which of the fifteen basic appeals in advertising do you think is the most popularly used? Because it seems most tv commercials and magazine advertisements go for the the need for sex and the the need for affiliation more than the rest.
Which of the fifteen basic appeals in advertising do you think is the most popularly used? Because it seems most tv commercials and magazine advertisements go for the the need for sex and the the need for affiliation more than the rest. -Daniel Tillman
This post relates to the reaction given by Mrs Orenstein in "Cinderella and Princess Culture":
Do you think Mrs. Orenstein had overreacted at the dentist office when the dentist asked the daughter if she wanted to sit on the princess throne? -Daniel Tillman
This post relates to the Weber Writes article, "The Death Penalty: An Ineffective Practice with Risk."
Toward the end of his essay Mr Hall said, "We are all born into circumstances out of our control." My question is do you agree or disagree with Mr Hall's statement?
It seems to me even though we can't control a situation exactly how we want too, we can and will make a decision that will have an effect on the circumstance. -Daniel Tillman
Andrew says: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11quU3nqkVE
Hey guys! Here's yet another wacky ad going back to when we were talking about ads. This totally isn't something I would expect from the Japanese community. Again let's analyze the appeal the Japanese are trying to get across to their children. Maybe turn the volume down, because them children are loud
My Response: Haha what funny little kids! As Cathy mentioned it is interesting how none of Mcdonald's food or drinks were used, yet they were able to get the point across quite easily.
It also seems Mcdonalds used the appeal for the need of aesthetic sensation for its advertising.It is clear these children are using emotions such as happy and exciting with the smiles on their faces and their yelling. -Daniel Tillman
Debra W says Does anyone else find it interesting that the "teacher(s)" didn't just walk out when they felt so uncomfortable by hurting the "learner(s)?" It seemed like they really wanted to please the "experimenter", and were actually intimidated by them.
My response: I absolutely agree with you Debra. It seemed if they pleased the experimenter they would feel less responsible for what was going on, and if they displeased the experimenter they would not know what would happen to them, thus filling the intimidation.
After reading a little bit of "The Perils of Obedience", I was able to get Mr. Milgram's view of why they wouldn't stop. He said, "The subject fears he will appear arrogant, untoward, and rude if he breaks off" (Milgram 701). -Daniel Tillman
Holly says: This post relates to The Milgram Experiment.
What do you think about the “teacher” who laughed during the experiment?
My response: To me it does not seem like the kind of laugh a person hears a funny joke. Rather it is more of an uneasy laugh with the teacher feeling very uncomfortable, nervous, and tense.
Another thing that came to mind was the possibility of the teacher trying to think of other things instead of the shock to the learner that could keep his or her mind off the experiment all together. Great insight on John Lennon, I never knew that. - Daniel Tillman
Andrew says: Hey guys check out this wacky KFC ad. What do you think the appeal and what not is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlQP7pSgpA
I kind of think they are trying to appeal the people who like a variety on things, but at the same time really drawing from their signature logo about the "Recipe". They show a family munching on chicken; so their target audience definitely is family. The song was quite catchy.
My response: Andrew you definitely know how to find some very interesting commercials man. The song was quite catchy. As Cathy mentioned, sorry i am not trying to steal her answer, but i agree with her in the two appeals used in this KFC.
The two used were the need for affiliation and to fulfill physiological needs. Affiliation was shown as the four people came together as a group who loved chicken , whether it was original recipe or hot & spicy.
The Physiological need for hunger and eating was fulfilled by the chicken. -Daniel Tillman
Holly says: Zimbardo, "The Stanford Prison Experiment"
Zimbardo studies the power of role playing in his experiment. Does anyone agree we give ourselves limiting labels, building our own prisons in the process?
We once had a class discussion about how uneasy it is to go places alone, like the movie theater, for example. I saw "Paranormal Activity" by myself in the theater (it seemed like a good idea at the time). It was for my book with all the new experiences; I spent most of my life labeling myself as shy, and I had to throw away that label in order to write my book. While the label felt legitimate, it made me feel exempt from taking initiative in life.
My response: I do agree with your question Holly. It seems if we have had a bad experience with a certain thing, we are unlikely to try it again or anything similar things. We try to stay in our own comfort zone and do things that we know we can do and wont fail or mess up on.
The only way to break free from this prison is to try new things and get out of our comfort zones being able to have new experiences. Who knows we might like and do it again, or learn from it and have the confidence inside ourselves that has been waiting to spring out. -Daniel Tillman
I'm writing my essay about public nudity. Do you think it's wrong? Also a separate but relevant question, do you think it is a sexual thing for the people who are drawn to it?
Do you think Mrs. Orenstein had overreacted at the dentist office when the dentist asked the daughter if she wanted to sit on the princess throne? -Daniel Tillman
Hey Daniel, Yeah, I think her reaction was a bit over the top. There are things that annoy me (not this particular subject, well, kinda, but never mind that), but there are appropriate places and ways to respond to those things. That poor person was just trying to get the kid into the dentist chair! Not always an easy thing to do, by the way. She needed to chill a bit, I think.
Holly answering your nudity question. . . . . Just from my own personal beliefs, I do believe public nudity is wrong and disgusting. But having said that, I am one who will listen to an arguement and see what you have to say. I'm interested to see what you come up with on that topic, I think it's a very interesting topic. Also your second question. . . . . I don't know much about public nudity or that it even occured! So I don't think I have a safe answer to that question. Again I'm anxious to see what you come up with and think you can make a pretty good paper about that. -Kaleb Payne
Daniel, answering your question about the dentist. . . . . I totally think that she overreacted! Everywhere I go there are employees and parents calling little girls princess, it almost seems as if that is the norm in society today. But I can see how the mom could have feelings toward the princess thing going to far. But the dentist was really just trying to be nice and do his job best. She really could have approached her problem differently than flipping out on the innocent dentist. -Kaleb Payne
Daniel, Like Kaleb, I also feel Peggy Orenstein overreacted to the dentist who made princess comments to her daughter. Not only did it make the dentist probably feel awkward, but it probably made her daughter feel uncomfortable, too. I believe parents should talk to their child in ways that help shape the view we hold as best, but not expect the rest of the world to comply to our standards. Especially when they're just trying to be nice.
Kaleb, thank-you for you comment about the nudity question. For a long time, I didn't know it occurred either, though there are several groups right here in Utah. I don't want to say what my personal beliefs are yet because I don't want to bias any other potential responses. It's definitely an interesting topic, and I'm genuinely interested in what people think about it.
I think nudity is an interesting topic to write about. In my opinion, I think most people, especially men would be involved for the sexual part. I can also see the freedom side of nudity. This will be a fun essay to write for you.
Holly! i think that eveyone deservs to express themselves how ever they wnt but i think that public nudity is wrong! i think its a little over the top and i think it pushes peoples buttons! alot of people would feel really awkward if they saw other people naked! and i think that that is something that has to be done at the privacy or the peoples home :) -lessly ibarra
Thanks for the comments, Lessly and Kenzie. I realized my question may be misleading. By public nudity, I don't mean streakers, flashers, etc.
I'm writing specifically about natural recreation, which is group activities in the nude. An example would be people having a dinner together, shoes and clothes left at the front door, but they're still doing this in privacy. In other words, when I met that nudist bounty hunter in Sizzler, he was fully dressed, or else Sizzler would've had quite the problem on there hands.
I hope that clears things up a bit. Lessly, is your topic on immigration specific? Are you talking about people immigrating to the U.S., for example? It's kind of interesting because, back to the bounty hunter, he said there are an incredible amount of illegal aliens in Ogden.
One more thought, when Ayn Rand, who wrote "Atlas Shrugged," one of the most conservative books ever printed, immigrated to the United States in her twenties to escape Communism in Russia, she came here because she admired capitalism and wanted to be a productive member of society. Other people come here to be parasites... so my take is, people (immigrant or native) should be willing to do their part.
I admire your interest in wanting to write about public nudity. It is really an interesting thing to do, and you never see it normally. With that I think it would be good for people to read so they don't really think about it in a wrong way. We all need something new to learn about, and in a way I think Mrs. Whitby wanted us to explore new topics. Nudity doesn't have to be a sexual thing, and just because one likes to be in the nude doesn't necessarily make them a bad person. I offer major brownie points to Holly for daring to write on a generally taboo topic. C'mon people it's college and we're all big boys and girls now. I'm sure we can handle a paper that talks about social nudity.
As my last question to you all, and sadly it does not involve funny advertisements. Really it relates to the class and all we have learned. How did you guys like the class? Did you think Mrs. Whitby taught us well in terms of english 1010? What would you recommend to her? What would you recommend to someone you know who is taking this class from her?
Mrs. Whitby I really enjoyed your class, and I learned a lot about writing papers for the future. You made class fun, and you always had a smile for us each day. Anyone taking this class can expect a friendly environment and a helping hand on anything they need. My English experience in class was one I'll remember. Thank you Mrs. Whitby see you around!
I agree I believe that she overreacted at the dentist office. I think that all little girls enjoy the thought of being a princess... It was just a simple way of getting the child into the seat!!!! I don't think that will be detrimental to her health and well being physically or emotionally.
Holly! thanks for responding! Well my thesis is that people who come to the united states for a better life should be allowed to stay and be able to reserve a status, after an amount of years. (at least 10 years) and people who commit crime and don't live an honest life should be deported. i hope that clears it up a little bit. -lessly ibarra
I think that writing about public nudity would be very interesting. Most people don't know much about it including myself. Some things I would be interested to know would be do they do it just for fun? Is it a religious type of choice? Or is it just something they grew up around so continue to carry it on? Would a nudist mother want her son/daughter to be a part of it? Would that mother allow the child to choose or would that mother force/strongly encourage the child to participate? Just curiosity i suppose but i would seriously be interested in seeing the results. Good Luck!!!
I read the TIME article for the final "The growing Backlash Against Overparenting" Great topic in my opinion. The article says that parents that "hover" are doing more harm than good. What do you guys think? Agree Disagree?
I agree with you regarding immigration my thoughts are about the same as long as they aren't taking advantage of the opportunities we are given here and are actually trying to make a better life then by all means they should be allowed to stay. My question is how would we keep track of those who aren't and keep it from going out of control?
Hi Lessly, I don't know what the immigration answer is, I only know we have a big problem. I have no problem with LEGAL immigration. We are really all immigrants, unless you are Native American, so it's kind of silly to be against it. But really, if I break the law, I know I'm probably going to jail. But they come here illegally and get free college? Free health care? Come on! I guess that's how I feel about immigration. I'll get off my soapbox now. :)
Hey Andrew, Aw, no more funnies? Sad day. As far as the class goes (and at the risk of sounding like a kiss-up), I liked it! I appreciate a teacher who realizes that her students have lives and things don't always work out the way you plan. In other words, I thought she was really open-minded and flexible. It was fun getting to know you all a bit; it's been a fun semester!
Holly, I don't have too much more to offer on the subject of nudity! :) But I hope you got your voice back! I'd be really interested in reading your paper. Maybe we could exchange emails tomorrow? See you!
kylee well yea it would be dificult to keep track. the government woud have to take care of that. maybe they can come up with a system :) -lessly ibarra
hey kathy! umm immigrents do not get free collage unless they have worked really hard in high school and they deserve it! probably 1 in 5 get a full ride. it is actually really hard for immigrants to go to collage and a lot of them dont because they think they cant. they actually have to pay out of state tuition even though they have lived here their whole life! i mean it might sound unfair that they get free stuff whitch probably comes from taxes. but isnt that what americans on welfare are doing? eventhough they have the status to get a job they rather live off the govenment!
In response to your question about English 1010, I can honestly say I will miss this class! The class environment constantly stimulated new ideas for me, and I learned how to be much more critical of what I read.
My writing became more focused and purposeful, and I finally understand the difference between passive and active verbs now after Sergio and I did our presentation!
Now that the semester is over, I am revising my book again about all my new experiences, and it is amazing how much what I mentioned above helps me improve my manuscript.
Prof. Whitby, thank-you for your efforts to makes us better readers and writers. I believe you wanted us to become better critical thinkers, and you succeeded.
In response to your question about hovering parents, I agree and disagree. I disagree to the fact that scaffolding is necessary to teach and enable, but too much of it for an unnecessary amount time can be predicting behavior which doesn't help with progression. I don't have kids, but I hope to let them explore and enjoy life for themselves with guidance.
Obviously you already wrote your article about public nudity, I would like to read it by the way. But in response to your question on whether its wrong or not, and if it is a sexual thing or not. I don't agree with it, and I wouldn't doubt that many participate for reasons of sexuality, especially some shady people with other objectives in mind. Hopefully not all have that in mind.
I love the diversity that people from all other nations bring to our country and how grateful I am to live in this one. Many people from all over the world would love to establish their lives here. I wish that all would obey the laws already enforced, this includes legal and illegal citizens, but we know that isn't the case. Regulation is the key, closing the doors is not.
Your question made me reflect on the experiences of this semester in our English class.
I honestly have a greater desire to critically read about what is happening around us. I dreaded English before this semester, and now it will be one of the classes I will miss. Just like Holly stated above, I also feel that my writing has become more purposeful. I only with Mrs. Whitby taught 2010!
I got to read your paper on public nudity. Very nicely written, I enjoyed reading it very much. I mainly just want to say that I think that Americans are, I believe, too uptight about public nudity. Almost every other country in the world looks a naked body in a non sexual way. European countries don't have to have private beaches where people can suntan in the nude, there one can do so on any beach. For some reason the US has become so uptight about nudity. But in reality there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. We are born naked, it is natural.
Holly, you wrote about the 'Teacher' who laughed during the experiment. I agree with you when you said that he might have been laughing to mask his guilt and the unreal situation that he was in.
When you wrote on the Stanford Prison Experiment, you were saying that you thought it was weird that the Teachers didn't walk out when just walk out of the experiment. I think that there are many reasons why they didn't. For one I think they didn't want to be a quitter. From a young age we are told from story books, are parents, and friends that you should not be a quitter. Also the fact that they volunteered to be there to help science, and to just leave would seem rude.
peter said... is obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people.
This is a good point. It is good to think for yourself, many situation require people to be obedient. In many situations we must be obedient because someone, such as a general, who can see the whole picture.
This post relates to The Milgram Experiment.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about the “teacher” who laughed during the experiment?
Initially, I felt stunned; to giggle while apparently inflicting pain seems sadistic. Yet his articulate perspective of the experiment suggests strong self-awareness, which is not something I’d expect from someone deranged, if that’s how you’d label a sadist.
I’m a big Beatles fan and I remember reading that when John Lennon learned of the death of his manager, who was also his friend, Lennon burst out laughing. Perhaps it’s a way his shock manifested itself, or maybe it just masked truly overwhelming emotions.
Are there other people who feel the teacher’s laughter may have been a coping mechanism?
-Holly Morphet
My question regarding the Milgram Experiment is pretty general, why would the teacher proceed to cause pain to the learner? The teacher must have known it was wrong, because the article tells of concern for the learner whom is crying out in pain. I think the actual need for finishing the teaching is overpowering to the teacher, but yet I still can't understand why the continuing of increasing pain infliction.
ReplyDeleteAndrew Plaster-
Do any of you agree with what Arendt contended?
ReplyDeleteWhich is Hitler was not a sadistic monster but rather an uninspired bureaucrat who sat at his desk and did his job.
Personally, I think as a human being you know if what you are doing is right or wrong. Is there any of you that think people like Hitler were just "doing their job?"
The Anonymous said...... about Arendt was posted by
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
Holly: I also felt like the laughing could have been a coping mechanism. I think what was going through the guys head was "I can't believe I'm actually doing this!" Therefore the laughing was showing he is acknowledging he knows what he's doing is crazy, and that in turn made him feel better.
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
Does anyone else find it interesting that the "teacher(s)" didn't just walk out when they felt so uncomfortable by hurting the "learner(s)?" It seemed like they really wanted to please the "experimenter", and were actually intimidated by them.
ReplyDeleteDebra W.
yeah it was a little weird, I dont understand why anyone would continue with the experiment after they found ot they would be hurting somebody. Also I wonder if any of them just needed the financial award and were willing to do whatever it took to get it?
ReplyDeleteDrew Britton!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteZimbardo, "The Stanford Prison Experiment"
ReplyDeleteZimbardo studies the power of role playing in his experiment. Does anyone agree we give ourselves limiting labels, building our own prisons in the process?
We once had a class discussion about how uneasy it is to go places alone, like the movie theater, for example. I saw "Paranormal Activity" by myself in the theater (it seemed like a good idea at the time). It was for my book with all the new experiences; I spent most of my life labeling myself as shy, and I had to throw away that label in order to write my book. While the label felt legitimate, it made me feel exempt from taking initiative in life.
-Holly Morphet
Holly: I totally agree that we confine ourselves in our minds and set limits that we won't go past. This prison we're creating seems like it comes from what others say or think of us, and our own doubts. People today are definitely creating prisons psychologically.
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
In "The Standford Prison Experiment,' it talks about how some of the experimental prisoners were terminated because of anxiety symptoms. Do any of you feel like some of those cases were faked just so that the prsioner could get out?
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
Kaleb: Your question made me think. Faking anguish in order to be freed from the experiment seems like a clever escape tactic, but due to the severity of the symptoms, I think they were real. There's also the counterexample of Prisoner 819, who didn't want to leave so long as others believed he was a "bad prisoner."
ReplyDeleteIt obviously wasn't a pleasant situation, but if it was still endurable enough that there weren't severe cases of anxiety, you'd wonder why people who agreed to be part of it were now desperate to leave.
Ross and Nisbitt's "The Power of Situations"
ReplyDeleteThat's right, I'm back again! Oh man.
Do you guys agree or disagree that a situation is more powerful than a person's character?
The "fundamental attribution error" is a term for when we overestimate the importance of character and fail to recognize the power of a situation in affecting our behavior. Is this true, false, or partly true?
Back again uh ;)
ReplyDeleteI am stuck between agreeing and disagreeing. I feel that a situation should never be above a person's character. However, I can agree that some, if not most, people are weak-minded and can let a situation have power over them.
Now reading the second part of your post is making me feel like I just had a fundamental attribution error haha. The power of a certain situation can be huge, but I still hold firm on the belief that a situation can never be above a person's character if they are strong enough. Situations can work in our favor or against and when they are against it tests our character and ourselves to the core. I would say partly true because there are still some people that would respect their character than be enveloped by a situation, but the majority letting the situation affect their behavior.
is obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people.
ReplyDeleteDo you guys agree or disagree that a situation is more powerful than a person's character?
ReplyDeletei think a persons character is more powerful.
that said, a person's character is made by what they do in those situations.
if you never stop to help someone change a tire, then chances are your not going to even if you are given the opportunity.
In "The Standford Prison Experiment,' it talks about how some of the experimental prisoners were terminated because of anxiety symptoms. Do any of you feel like some of those cases were faked just so that the prsioner could get out?
ReplyDeletefaking injury is a smart way to deal with that particular problem. think about it, if the guards or the professor is instead of hounding them for being prisoners and worrying about their well being, then all of a sudden your not a prisoner anymore for that moment.
do you think it works the other way around? can you be instead of faking injury, becoming more aggressive in order to cope with the pressures of confinement.
Does anyone else find it interesting that the "teacher(s)" didn't just walk out when they felt so uncomfortable by hurting the "learner(s)?" It seemed like they really wanted to please the "experimenter", and were actually intimidated by them.
ReplyDeleteDebra W.
i think the mere fact that they were given a job was the reason. i can't count the times I've been consumed by my workload with the desire to just finish. i think that a lot of them felt responsible for the test itself.
i know that this is a special case but what if in the real world you were told to flip a metaphorical switch that you new would case pain to another person. what if that push of a switch resulted in the cure to cancer, or cold fusion, or averted a war.
Would you flip the switch?
Holly: I think a situtaion is as powerful as one's character makes it. What i mean by that is it depends on how strong of a character a person has made for themself, and how much they value you it. While i do agree that a situation can add a stress that may test their character, it is utimately up to how strong their character is. If one has a strong enough character they can defeat a bad situation, in my opinion.
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
So the article on banning fast food advertising.... I was a little skeptical on how true the results are out of a study environment. I personally don't think just cutting advertisements will make a lot of people just all together stop eating fast food. Does anyone else find the fact that just watching food commercials is adding to obesity a stong assumption??
ReplyDeleteThe above was posted by Kaleb Payne.
ReplyDeleteSo the article on banning fast food advertising.... I was a little skeptical on how true the results are out of a study environment. I personally don't think just cutting advertisements will make a lot of people just all together stop eating fast food. Does anyone else find the fact that just watching food commercials is adding to obesity a stong assumption??
ReplyDeleteabsolutely not. i think its another way for people to give their responsibility to someone else. its stupid to think i gained 300lbs by watching a McDonald add. no i got that way from eating food that was really bad for me. and that alone doesn't do it. you can eat the worst stuff out there as long as you hit the gym. while i was in the military one of my close friends and a ritual of eating a pint of ice cream every night like it was a new religion or something.
saying food makes you fat is like saying guns kill people. nothing can happen without something acting.
someone acting
ReplyDeletePeter as an "Answer" to your question regarding the fastfood commercials adding to obesity; I don't believe so either. I think your absolutely right on saying that it's how we act on what we are seeing. The commercials entice us to want the food, but whether we decide to eat there is completely on us. Yes the fast food should be a bit healthier, but it's not like we are really forced to eat it. Exercise is good PARKOUR!!!! ^_^
ReplyDeleteIn regards to all the ads
ReplyDeleteHey guys check out this wacky KFC ad. What do you think the appeal and what not is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlQP7pSgpA
I kind of think they are trying to appeal the people who like a variety on things, but at the same time really drawing from their signature logo about the "Recipe". They show a family munching on chicken; so their target audience definitely is family. The song was quite catchy.
"is obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people." -Peter Gilchrist-
ReplyDeleteAndrew: I guess it really depends on the situation Peter; in that soldier situation he has to act to the authority of his superior, but with that what if the superior is a bit corrupted by his own personally feelings over what's actually right. That feeling is then passed onto the soldier who has to think, but if he is just going off of how superior his commanding officer is then it just ends up with the same deal.
This is where i ask "When is obedience a good thing, and when is a bad thing?"
>>"is obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people." -Peter Gilchrist-<<
ReplyDeletePeter, I hear what you're saying, and I agree with you. I think in that situation there is a certain amount of trust --if not in the commanding officer personally, then in the institution that put him in that position-- that allows a soldier to obey that authority immediately. I think in that situation, obedience is vital.
>>Hey guys check out this wacky KFC ad. What do you think the appeal and what not is?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlQP7pSgpA <<
Wow, I thought that commercial was awful! It's the kind of commercial that would make me hit the mute button immediately. Without the sound they look like they are enjoying the chicken, though! :) I think one appeal they were using was affiliation. They were all part of the group, loving chicken! Also, physiological needs, hunger, and such.
when fighting a war most people only think of the side their on. people pray to be delivered from evil and protected from their enemies not even thinking that is exactly what the apposing force is doing.in my experience, this has proven to be the case whether the individual a religious person or not.
ReplyDeleteimagine for a minute that the table was switched and we were not part of our great country but a German indoctrinated from a very early age to love the feror, hate the Jews, and believe you, the master race, was suprior in every way to the world.
obedience takes on a whole new meaning now.
How do we find truth? to a German boy in the Hitler youth it was that he was superior, in Saipan the thousands of civilians committed suicide rather then be confronted by the brutal marine core.
-How do you know what truth is?
-What if your actions (although evil)to the outside world appealed to your truth?
-Could you really be held responsible for being obedient to cause you believe in?
last question.
What if we lost? history is written by the man/county with the biggest stick. with history being written by Germany would we generations later still view things the same way?
sooo is whitbys email address on the syllabus wrong? I've been trying to get ahold of her for the last past 4 days...
ReplyDelete-Mayomi
Mayomi,
ReplyDeleteIm not sure but this is the email I use to reach her, emilywhitby1@weber.edu
Hope this helps :)
This goes to peters post
ReplyDeleteYour example of the Hitler Youth brings up a good point. It is always helpful, not only to put yourself in other peoples shoes, but looks imagine looking through their eyes. So how do we know what truth is? Good question. Every persons truths are different. Even a similar truth, for example religion, can be interpreted differently by two people. Example, two Catholics that both have faith in their religion but still have differences in certain aspects of it. Truth is based completely on the individual, whether he/she was taught it from birth or learned it. So to the second part of your question, evil is a view based on the individual. I personally think it is evil for a group to throw rocks at a persons head until they are dead but in other countries stoning someone is a common form of punishment. That so called savage evil life, according to me, is normal to someone raised in those tradition and vice versa. Someone who thinks stoning someone is fine might think solitary confinement is evil, all a matter of opinion. Coming to your last question, the winning side always writes the history and the winning side will never be evil. If Germany won WWII then their truths and ideals would have been correct and ours evil and wrong. Concentration camps would have been looked at as necessary and the allies as evil allies that came to aid the evil jews.
I hope my answers made sense. Great questions though.
Peter, answering your question "How do you know what truth is?" I think one chooses what truth is to them by what their morals and values would say. And in the world today people have many different morals and values so, in my opinion, almost everyone in the world is going to have a different opinion on what truth is. How well can certain people be trusted in today's society also plays a big roll in ansering that question. That is a great question though. . . . it left me very skeptical.
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
In James Poniewozik's "The Princess Paradox," he mentions how more recent cinderella movies vary very differently from past ones. He says movies now make the cinderella all about the ball and the dress and being girly girl. With the past movies he suggests that the women in those movies are taught to work and be tough and provide for themselves. Do you agree that in these days the girl or princess almost has to be seen as royal and girly girl? Or do you think that the cinderella is still displayed as tough and self sustainable?
ReplyDeleteThe above was Kaleb Payne
ReplyDeleteSo, can someone explain to me why it's so bad for a little girl to want to be a princess? How is that damaging? I understand the fight we (women) have gone through to become equals, but I don't understand how dressing up and pretending to be a princess sets us back. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
ReplyDeleteKaleb, good question! So, I think it depends on who the audience is meant to be. I think in Disney's Cinderella, the focus is mainly on right and wrong, and happily ever after, etc. The steps were wrong to be so mean, Cinderella deserved a happily ever after...
ReplyDeleteBut in Ever After, the audience is maybe a little older. The same things translate well here for the younger crowd, but you also see "cinderella" taking care of the servants, bringing down the bad guy, standing up to bandits, AND getting the prince!
Peter, those are some really tough questions. I get where you're going with them, but when you asked to imagine we were Germans indoctrinated from youth to believe those things, it made me really think about it. I don't know. My hope is that there would be some conscience that would not be denied. History has shown that even in totalitarian societies there are resistance groups that rise up, whether successfully or not.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't this show that truth is not necessarily just what you're told?
Cathy Evans said...
ReplyDeleteSo, can someone explain to me why it's so bad for a little girl to want to be a princess? How is that damaging? I understand the fight we (women) have gone through to become equals, but I don't understand how dressing up and pretending to be a princess sets us back. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Andrew Plaster Responds: I guess by "pretending" to be a princess it sets in the little girls mind that they should be dependent on waiting for their prince to spoil and take care of them. I don't think it's really a bad thing. The women who think that it's so bad should maybe set limits on how long their daughters can play princess. A age limit at which their needs to be some better exploring of different things in life. That's kind of a rough opinion I suppose, but I tried.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11quU3nqkVE
ReplyDeleteHey guys! Here's yet another wacky ad going back to when we were talking about ads. This totally isn't something I would expect from the Japanese community. Again let's analyze the appeal the Japanese are trying to get across to their children. Maybe turn the volume down, because them children are loud.
Wow! Those are some really excited kids! I think it's really interesting that the McDonald's commercial didn't feature any of their food. No fries, no juicy burgers, no milkshakes! The Japanese seem to understand that the kids couldn't care less about the food. They want the toys! It's true, too. My kids would rather have had a bowl of cereal (as long as they still got the toy)!
ReplyDeleteAndrew, I think that was a great opinion! That is my point, actually. What is the big deal? If you (as the parent) are concerned, set limits! Direct their play. Interact with your kids, people! Sorry. Done ranting. =)
ReplyDeleteWhere is a good place to find controversial Articles?
ReplyDeleteHey Spencer, a good place to find controversial articles is on the opinion page of any newspaper or news website (cnn.com, nytimes.com, www.time.com/time). Another good place to look is news websites that have a bias--foxnews.com, huffingtonpost.com, motherjones.com, washingtonpost.com.
ReplyDeleteIn Burger's article, "Replicating Milgram: Would People Still Obey Today", we read of an experiment that was much similar to Stanley Milgram's in the way it was done, as well as the results.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the results are close in percentage, given the experiments took place were done forty five years from each other?
-Daniel Tillman
Do you think Mr. Milgram got some of his ideas of his experiment from Solomon Asch's experiment, given both show individuals surrendering their own judgement into someone else?
ReplyDeleteAnother fact to point out is Solomon Asch's experiment took place a little more than decade before Mr. Milgrams.
-Daniel Tillman
Which of the fifteen basic appeals in advertising do you think is the most popularly used? Because it seems most tv commercials and magazine advertisements go for the the need for sex and the the need for affiliation more than the rest.
ReplyDeleteWhich of the fifteen basic appeals in advertising do you think is the most popularly used? Because it seems most tv commercials and magazine advertisements go for the the need for sex and the the need for affiliation more than the rest.
ReplyDelete-Daniel Tillman
Sorry the post above one was sent twice.
ReplyDeleteThis post relates to the reaction given by Mrs Orenstein in "Cinderella and Princess Culture":
Do you think Mrs. Orenstein had overreacted at the dentist office when the dentist asked the daughter if she wanted to sit on the princess throne?
-Daniel Tillman
This post relates to the Weber Writes article, "The Death Penalty: An Ineffective Practice with Risk."
ReplyDeleteToward the end of his essay Mr Hall said, "We are all born into circumstances out of our control." My question is do you agree or disagree with Mr Hall's statement?
It seems to me even though we can't control a situation exactly how we want too, we can and will make a decision that will have an effect on the circumstance.
-Daniel Tillman
Andrew says:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11quU3nqkVE
Hey guys! Here's yet another wacky ad going back to when we were talking about ads. This totally isn't something I would expect from the Japanese community. Again let's analyze the appeal the Japanese are trying to get across to their children. Maybe turn the volume down, because them children are loud
My Response:
Haha what funny little kids! As Cathy mentioned it is interesting how none of Mcdonald's food or drinks were used, yet they were able to get the point across quite easily.
It also seems Mcdonalds used the appeal for the need of aesthetic sensation for its advertising.It is clear these children are using emotions such as happy and exciting with the smiles on their faces and their yelling.
-Daniel Tillman
Debra W says
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else find it interesting that the "teacher(s)" didn't just walk out when they felt so uncomfortable by hurting the "learner(s)?" It seemed like they really wanted to please the "experimenter", and were actually intimidated by them.
My response:
I absolutely agree with you Debra. It seemed if they pleased the experimenter they would feel less responsible for what was going on, and if they displeased the experimenter they would not know what would happen to them, thus filling the intimidation.
After reading a little bit of "The Perils of Obedience", I was able to get Mr. Milgram's view of why they wouldn't stop. He said, "The subject fears he will appear arrogant, untoward, and rude if he breaks off" (Milgram 701).
-Daniel Tillman
Holly says:
ReplyDeleteThis post relates to The Milgram Experiment.
What do you think about the “teacher” who laughed during the experiment?
My response:
To me it does not seem like the kind of laugh a person hears a funny joke. Rather it is more of an uneasy laugh with the teacher feeling very uncomfortable, nervous, and tense.
Another thing that came to mind was the possibility of the teacher trying to think of other things instead of the shock to the learner that could keep his or her mind off the experiment all together. Great insight on John Lennon, I never knew that.
- Daniel Tillman
Andrew says:
ReplyDeleteHey guys check out this wacky KFC ad. What do you think the appeal and what not is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlQP7pSgpA
I kind of think they are trying to appeal the people who like a variety on things, but at the same time really drawing from their signature logo about the "Recipe". They show a family munching on chicken; so their target audience definitely is family. The song was quite catchy.
My response:
Andrew you definitely know how to find some very interesting commercials man. The song was quite catchy. As Cathy mentioned, sorry i am not trying to steal her answer, but i agree with her in the two appeals used in this KFC.
The two used were the need for affiliation and to fulfill physiological needs. Affiliation was shown as the four people came together as a group who loved chicken , whether it was original recipe or hot & spicy.
The Physiological need for hunger and eating was fulfilled by the chicken.
-Daniel Tillman
Holly says:
ReplyDeleteZimbardo, "The Stanford Prison Experiment"
Zimbardo studies the power of role playing in his experiment. Does anyone agree we give ourselves limiting labels, building our own prisons in the process?
We once had a class discussion about how uneasy it is to go places alone, like the movie theater, for example. I saw "Paranormal Activity" by myself in the theater (it seemed like a good idea at the time). It was for my book with all the new experiences; I spent most of my life labeling myself as shy, and I had to throw away that label in order to write my book. While the label felt legitimate, it made me feel exempt from taking initiative in life.
My response:
I do agree with your question Holly. It seems if we have had a bad experience with a certain thing, we are unlikely to try it again or anything similar things. We try to stay in our own comfort zone and do things that we know we can do and wont fail or mess up on.
The only way to break free from this prison is to try new things and get out of our comfort zones being able to have new experiences. Who knows we might like and do it again, or learn from it and have the confidence inside ourselves that has been waiting to spring out.
-Daniel Tillman
Hey guys,
ReplyDeleteI'm writing my essay about public nudity. Do you think it's wrong? Also a separate but relevant question, do you think it is a sexual thing for the people who are drawn to it?
Do you think Mrs. Orenstein had overreacted at the dentist office when the dentist asked the daughter if she wanted to sit on the princess throne?
ReplyDelete-Daniel Tillman
Hey Daniel,
Yeah, I think her reaction was a bit over the top. There are things that annoy me (not this particular subject, well, kinda, but never mind that), but there are appropriate places and ways to respond to those things. That poor person was just trying to get the kid into the dentist chair! Not always an easy thing to do, by the way. She needed to chill a bit, I think.
Holly answering your nudity question. . . . . Just from my own personal beliefs, I do believe public nudity is wrong and disgusting. But having said that, I am one who will listen to an arguement and see what you have to say. I'm interested to see what you come up with on that topic, I think it's a very interesting topic. Also your second question. . . . . I don't know much about public nudity or that it even occured! So I don't think I have a safe answer to that question. Again I'm anxious to see what you come up with and think you can make a pretty good paper about that.
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
Daniel, answering your question about the dentist. . . . . I totally think that she overreacted! Everywhere I go there are employees and parents calling little girls princess, it almost seems as if that is the norm in society today. But I can see how the mom could have feelings toward the princess thing going to far. But the dentist was really just trying to be nice and do his job best. She really could have approached her problem differently than flipping out on the innocent dentist.
ReplyDelete-Kaleb Payne
Daniel,
ReplyDeleteLike Kaleb, I also feel Peggy Orenstein overreacted to the dentist who made princess comments to her daughter. Not only did it make the dentist probably feel awkward, but it probably made her daughter feel uncomfortable, too. I believe parents should talk to their child in ways that help shape the view we hold as best, but not expect the rest of the world to comply to our standards. Especially when they're just trying to be nice.
Kaleb, thank-you for you comment about the nudity question. For a long time, I didn't know it occurred either, though there are several groups right here in Utah. I don't want to say what my personal beliefs are yet because I don't want to bias any other potential responses. It's definitely an interesting topic, and I'm genuinely interested in what people think about it.
ReplyDeleteI think nudity is an interesting topic to write about. In my opinion, I think most people, especially men would be involved for the sexual part. I can also see the freedom side of nudity. This will be a fun essay to write for you.
ReplyDelete-Kenzie Foreman
Holly! i think that eveyone deservs to express themselves how ever they wnt but i think that public nudity is wrong! i think its a little over the top and i think it pushes peoples buttons! alot of people would feel really awkward if they saw other people naked! and i think that that is something that has to be done at the privacy or the peoples home :)
ReplyDelete-lessly ibarra
i am wirting my essay on immigrtion. how do you guys feel about it? what are some pros and cons?
ReplyDelete-lessly ibarra
Thanks for the comments, Lessly and Kenzie. I realized my question may be misleading. By public nudity, I don't mean streakers, flashers, etc.
ReplyDeleteI'm writing specifically about natural recreation, which is group activities in the nude. An example would be people having a dinner together, shoes and clothes left at the front door, but they're still doing this in privacy. In other words, when I met that nudist bounty hunter in Sizzler, he was fully dressed, or else Sizzler would've had quite the problem on there hands.
I hope that clears things up a bit. Lessly, is your topic on immigration specific? Are you talking about people immigrating to the U.S., for example? It's kind of interesting because, back to the bounty hunter, he said there are an incredible amount of illegal aliens in Ogden.
P.S. I meant "their" hands, not "there." Also, I'm not seeing the bounty hunter anymore, but I do remember him saying that last year.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLessly,
ReplyDeleteOne more thought, when Ayn Rand, who wrote "Atlas Shrugged," one of the most conservative books ever printed, immigrated to the United States in her twenties to escape Communism in Russia, she came here because she admired capitalism and wanted to be a productive member of society. Other people come here to be parasites... so my take is, people (immigrant or native) should be willing to do their part.
Dear Holly,
ReplyDeleteI admire your interest in wanting to write about public nudity. It is really an interesting thing to do, and you never see it normally. With that I think it would be good for people to read so they don't really think about it in a wrong way. We all need something new to learn about, and in a way I think Mrs. Whitby wanted us to explore new topics. Nudity doesn't have to be a sexual thing, and just because one likes to be in the nude doesn't necessarily make them a bad person. I offer major brownie points to Holly for daring to write on a generally taboo topic. C'mon people it's college and we're all big boys and girls now. I'm sure we can handle a paper that talks about social nudity.
As my last question to you all, and sadly it does not involve funny advertisements. Really it relates to the class and all we have learned. How did you guys like the class? Did you think Mrs. Whitby taught us well in terms of english 1010?
ReplyDeleteWhat would you recommend to her? What would you recommend to someone you know who is taking this class from her?
Mrs. Whitby I really enjoyed your class, and I learned a lot about writing papers for the future. You made class fun, and you always had a smile for us each day. Anyone taking this class can expect a friendly environment and a helping hand on anything they need. My English experience in class was one I'll remember. Thank you Mrs. Whitby see you around!
I agree I believe that she overreacted at the dentist office. I think that all little girls enjoy the thought of being a princess... It was just a simple way of getting the child into the seat!!!! I don't think that will be detrimental to her health and well being physically or emotionally.
ReplyDeleteKylee B.
Holly!
ReplyDeletethanks for responding! Well my thesis is that people who come to the united states for a better life should be allowed to stay and be able to reserve a status, after an amount of years. (at least 10 years) and people who commit crime and don't live an honest life should be deported. i hope that clears it up a little bit.
-lessly ibarra
Holly,
ReplyDeleteI think that writing about public nudity would be very interesting. Most people don't know much about it including myself. Some things I would be interested to know would be do they do it just for fun? Is it a religious type of choice? Or is it just something they grew up around so continue to carry it on? Would a nudist mother want her son/daughter to be a part of it? Would that mother allow the child to choose or would that mother force/strongly encourage the child to participate? Just curiosity i suppose but i would seriously be interested in seeing the results. Good Luck!!!
Kylee B.
I read the TIME article for the final "The growing Backlash Against Overparenting" Great topic in my opinion. The article says that parents that "hover" are doing more harm than good. What do you guys think? Agree Disagree?
ReplyDeleteKylee B.
Lessly,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you regarding immigration my thoughts are about the same as long as they aren't taking advantage of the opportunities we are given here and are actually trying to make a better life then by all means they should be allowed to stay. My question is how would we keep track of those who aren't and keep it from going out of control?
Kylee B.
Hi Lessly,
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the immigration answer is, I only know we have a big problem. I have no problem with LEGAL immigration. We are really all immigrants, unless you are Native American, so it's kind of silly to be against it. But really, if I break the law, I know I'm probably going to jail. But they come here illegally and get free college? Free health care? Come on! I guess that's how I feel about immigration. I'll get off my soapbox now. :)
Hey Andrew,
ReplyDeleteAw, no more funnies? Sad day. As far as the class goes (and at the risk of sounding like a kiss-up), I liked it! I appreciate a teacher who realizes that her students have lives and things don't always work out the way you plan. In other words, I thought she was really open-minded and flexible.
It was fun getting to know you all a bit; it's been a fun semester!
Holly,
ReplyDeleteI don't have too much more to offer on the subject of nudity! :) But I hope you got your voice back! I'd be really interested in reading your paper. Maybe we could exchange emails tomorrow?
See you!
To Cathy
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQy0RbmfGKU
Here's one for ya :)
kylee
ReplyDeletewell yea it would be dificult to keep track. the government woud have to take care of that. maybe they can come up with a system :)
-lessly ibarra
hey kathy!
ReplyDeleteumm immigrents do not get free collage unless they have worked really hard in high school and they deserve it! probably 1 in 5 get a full ride. it is actually really hard for immigrants to go to collage and a lot of them dont because they think they cant. they actually have to pay out of state tuition even though they have lived here their whole life! i mean it might sound unfair that they get free stuff whitch probably comes from taxes. but isnt that what americans on welfare are doing? eventhough they have the status to get a job they rather live off the govenment!
-lessly ibarra
Andrew,
ReplyDeleteIn response to your question about English 1010, I can honestly say I will miss this class! The class environment constantly stimulated new ideas for me, and I learned how to be much more critical of what I read.
My writing became more focused and purposeful, and I finally understand the difference between passive and active verbs now after Sergio and I did our presentation!
Now that the semester is over, I am revising my book again about all my new experiences, and it is amazing how much what I mentioned above helps me improve my manuscript.
Prof. Whitby, thank-you for your efforts to makes us better readers and writers. I believe you wanted us to become better critical thinkers, and you succeeded.
Kylee B,
ReplyDeleteIn response to your question about hovering parents, I agree and disagree. I disagree to the fact that scaffolding is necessary to teach and enable, but too much of it for an unnecessary amount time can be predicting behavior which doesn't help with progression. I don't have kids, but I hope to let them explore and enjoy life for themselves with guidance.
-Kyle S.
Holly,
ReplyDeleteObviously you already wrote your article about public nudity, I would like to read it by the way. But in response to your question on whether its wrong or not, and if it is a sexual thing or not. I don't agree with it, and I wouldn't doubt that many participate for reasons of sexuality, especially some shady people with other objectives in mind. Hopefully not all have that in mind.
Holly,
ReplyDeleteWhat are some of the main reasons you found that make people want to participate in this (public nudity)?
above posts were by me:) hopefully not too late
ReplyDeletehere is a real question, what happened to drew? haha anyone talk to the kid lately?
ReplyDeleteLessly,
ReplyDeleteI love the diversity that people from all other nations bring to our country and how grateful I am to live in this one. Many people from all over the world would love to establish their lives here. I wish that all would obey the laws already enforced, this includes legal and illegal citizens, but we know that isn't the case. Regulation is the key, closing the doors is not.
Lessly,
ReplyDeleteWhat are some of the issues you found that are being brought up about immigration here in Utah?
Andrew,
ReplyDeleteYour question made me reflect on the experiences of this semester in our English class.
I honestly have a greater desire to critically read about what is happening around us. I dreaded English before this semester, and now it will be one of the classes I will miss. Just like Holly stated above, I also feel that my writing has become more purposeful. I only with Mrs. Whitby taught 2010!
To the discussion on immigrants,
ReplyDeleteI don't mind immigrants coming into the country and working. I just have a problem when they do it illegally, and don't contribute taxes to the state.
Joshua Mitchell
Holly,
ReplyDeleteI got to read your paper on public nudity. Very nicely written, I enjoyed reading it very much. I mainly just want to say that I think that Americans are, I believe, too uptight about public nudity. Almost every other country in the world looks a naked body in a non sexual way. European countries don't have to have private beaches where people can suntan in the nude, there one can do so on any beach. For some reason the US has become so uptight about nudity. But in reality there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. We are born naked, it is natural.
Joshua Mitchell
Holly,
ReplyDeleteHolly, you wrote about the 'Teacher' who laughed during the experiment. I agree with you when you said that he might have been laughing to mask his guilt and the unreal situation that he was in.
Joshua Mitchell
Peter,
ReplyDeleteWhen you wrote on the Stanford Prison Experiment, you were saying that you thought it was weird that the Teachers didn't walk out when just walk out of the experiment. I think that there are many reasons why they didn't. For one I think they didn't want to be a quitter. From a young age we are told from story books, are parents, and friends that you should not be a quitter. Also the fact that they volunteered to be there to help science, and to just leave would seem rude.
Joshua Mitchell
peter said...
ReplyDeleteis obedience really a bad thing? if a soldier hesitates in the heat of the moment he could directly be responsible for tens, hundreds or even thousands of people.
This is a good point. It is good to think for yourself, many situation require people to be obedient. In many situations we must be obedient because someone, such as a general, who can see the whole picture.
Joshua Mitchell